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Re: Video showing VB games
Posted on: 2012/2/8 22:56
Joined 2006/3/15
234 Posts
PVBCC 3rdCoderLong Time User (13 Years)
Hi, long time since I've came to this site and post in the forums.

Jorgeche's VbJaEngine - he made a Mario entry in one of the coding competitions using it. I think this was built to help people code on the VB.

It's poorly documented. The programmer's guide doesn't explain much. And it's much harder for beginners to use. In my opinion, basing a game on a giant engine isn't such a great idea. Writing your own code gives you much less restrictions on the design of the game.

Just found you're reference to my engine, indeed it's not that well documented and is not beginner friendly at all, it implements some high programming concepts (OOP, variadic functions, memory management, etc.) which are not really for the hobbyist but for real programmers and to do so I had to came up with some custom idioms for it, and even more, it requires that you are already familiar with game programming and it's core concepts (time based update, frame based update, state machines, sprite animation techniques, etc). It's nothing revolutionary either, most of it's architecture is based on my experience with successful engines like Playground, Unity 3D, Cocos 2D, and the custom game engine that I contributed to develop while I was working at Blue Lizard Games but shrunk down to fit in the VB. But even then I can be proud of a few sparks of good design in it, like the animation system (that I wrote before doing any gaming at all), which's concept is something you will find in the official docs of one of the best seller video consoles of all time.

Now, I will try not to sound too harsh but your recommendation
of "just do it yourself" is not a very good one, having by now a few years of professional experience in the game industry (and even more in programming in general) you don't just reinvent the wheel to be proud of yourself, it has to be meaningful ie: you want to learn the device's architecture to the bones. But if you intend to really produce something that you want to release even as a free demo or whatever, you better start off with what already has been done, I myself (and no one who does programming) don't go out to make a iOS game and rewrite all from scratch, I use some of the already available tools: Cocos 2D, Box2D, Corona, etc, usually written by someone who knows a little more than oneself. And my engine just tries to provide similar features to those of the mentioned engines, and by the time of it's development there were none which did that on the VB.

It's correct that an engine imposes you some restrictions to the way you design your games, but it's a trade off, you will come with a very mediocre simulation racing game if you want to get that from the UDK for example but you may get it ready a lot faster than you will if you write from shaders to physics to ai to rendering to.... But if you what to do a FPS or a TPS you have a very good start with it, and even then it will impose you restrictions on what you can and cannot do.

That's really the problem with the whole VB scene, and I'm not trying to make a promotional campaign for my engine now, there is already a lot of source code around here to begin with, the problem is that all video gamers believe that they are able to create their own game and believe that they are multifacetic enough to design it, program it, produce the assets for it, do the sound, do testing and at the end will come with the best and more content loaded game of the VB's catalog, instead of trying to achieve something as a team or be more real and use this device as a medium to learn game programming. If you have the time for doing it all by yourself I say go for it, that would be a great achievement, but if you have to work or study like most of the people, you will have to get a little more real. Proof of this is that there is not a single homebrew game to this day which is content complete and is as complex as the officially published games. If you check my Mario demo it's just a very short level, which took a long time to produce even with Krisse's aid in the assets department. Or other project while more polished that mines, are not new ideas so no design effort there.

To resume, if you want to learn a little, do it yourself; if you really want to learn or achieve something to share, grab the tools that are already available, learn them even if they are hard and get enough people to make it happen, no way around it no matter what you're opinion on the subject might be. Oh, and documentation will get you only so far, go check Playground's documentation, Cocos2d's, even Unity 3d's which is really good by the way and it won't allow you to build anything by just reading it, you will have sooner or later to go deep into the code, and if it's written clearly enough with good coding standards and meaningful comments, that will teach you more than any documentation about how to use a library of any kind, and as a matter of fact I think that my engines is written that way.


Re: Video showing VB games
Posted on: 2012/2/8 23:35
PVB Elite
Joined 2008/12/28
629 Posts
Highscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreCoderContributor10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (10 Years) App CoderPVBCC 2010 EntryPVBCC 2013 Entry
In the end, it's apparently a matter of choice. The VB has the potential to run games requiring complex engines (DanB's Hunter proves that), but at the same time the hardware is simple enough to program that you can accomplish a lot without even giving much thought to the design of the code (VirtualChris' code proves that).

Re: Video showing VB games
Posted on: 2012/2/9 15:07
Joined 2011/7/3
435 Posts
CoderContributorLong Time User (8 Years) App Coder40+ Game Ratings
Ok Now as we speak three of us are united by dropbox. A few of you have told me that you would rather not use dropbox and that's ok. But for the remainder I have sent PM's and gotten no response. I feel with 2 artists 2 really good programmers and possibly 2 music guys and even a story guy we can get started. We even have a person that signed up for testing. It's a small team but it's enough for now. And as always anyone can join in that hasn't already. Just post or send me a PM with your email so I can add you to the dropbox. OK thanks for your support but were really not getting anywhere until we can communicate.

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