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#61
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2009/1/25 15:27
Nintendoid!
Joined 2006/8/20
Spain
222 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years)
Quote:

So what good is it? The owners wanted the carts dumped for them so they wouldn't release them?

How is that any better then NOT releasing them? If they were holding them that tightly to begin with, again I say they deserve no sympathy.


Well, I as an owner of the 4 ER carts, think that it's better to have a backup ROM copy -even if it's not in my hard drive- just in case the carts get corrupted after the years, than not having anything at all. I believe that dumping and releasing are two different concepts. If I agree to dump my games, it's because I want to have a backup copy. If I agree to release them, it's because I want everyone to have a copy of my games.

The point that DogP is trying to point out is the following:

1.- Someone (let's call him Mr. X, because I can't remember who he was, but you can check the forums) claims he has the 4 ER carts, and is going to dump them to release the ROMs because he wants everyone to have them.
2.- Mr. X, after several faulty dumps and problems with the ROM images, says he has finally achieved it and releases the ROMs which he supposedly obtained from his carts, claiming that he has dumped them.
3.- People who own the original 4 ER ROMs check the CRC32 of the ROMs (which if I'm not mistaken is unique to each archive) and discover that the released ROMs are not new dumps, but the original dumps made years ago from carts whose owners said "you can dump them, but you cannot release the ROMs to the public".

Therefore, the problem is not that the ROMs were released, but the way they were released and the "breakage of the word given to the owners" that this person did in order to release the ROMs.

I once didn't mind dumping my ER carts to release the ROMs, but never had the knowledge to do so. It's all this "give the ROM to me for free because I deserve it" thing that has made me think twice about all these ROM releasing.

What everyone should understand with all this "release the ROMs" thingie is that the original owners of all these games which everyone wants to play have invested many, many hours of their personal life, as well as incredibly high amounts of money to get them, and they have the right to decide what to do with their games and who they want to allow to play with them.

If I were the one who got those games dumped, and agreed to release my dumped games, it's because I wanted everyone to have access to them. And if it had been my decission, my reasons for not releasing them would have probably been the insane effort (both economical and time-consuming) I had to do to get them, as well as the "bad-souls" of some of the people whom I've known while trying to get those games and all the "I want the ROMs" I've read in the last years. Why should I release something for free that has made me spend years of my life to get them?

And if one of the people who owns the game agrees to have his games dumped "for the sake of preservation" with the only compromise of not seeing those ROMs distributed, I think that his desire should be respected, even if you don't understand his reasons for it. And finally, if someone breaks the compromise and releases the ROMs (as it has happened with the 4 ER ROMs), what do you think the owner would do if he has more ER things? I'd bet that he would grab those ER things even more strongly so that it doesn't happen the same as with his 4 ER ROMs. Don't you think so? (and for God's sake, please think about it from a reasonable point of view, not from the "I want all the ROMs" point of view).
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#62
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2009/1/25 16:08
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2003/9/3
Sweden
442 Posts
PVBCC EntryHighscore Top10 3rdCoderContributorHOTY09 2ndLong Time User (15 Years) DonatorApp CoderPVBCC 2010 1st20+ Game RatingsPVBCC 2013 2nd
Enough already. realyst, if you think all roms should be made available for free to the public just because they "deserve" it, then that makes you a communist.
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#63
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2009/1/25 17:50
Nintendoid!
Joined 2007/11/10
Austria
142 Posts
Long Time User (11 Years)
Quote:

DanB schrieb:
...if you think all roms should be made available for free to the public just because they "deserve" it, then that makes you a communist.


You made my day!
Now I know why the Virtualboy is red!

BTW: Thanks to the communists out there for uploading the missing rare games.
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#64
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2009/1/25 18:56
VB Gamer
Joined 2009/1/19
Spain
44 Posts
Long Time User (10 Years)
Many people payed hundreds of dollars for some games that only they could play, but now, the situation has changed and everybody can play them for free. And maybe was the only possitiblity they had to do it.
I suspect of course that most of people commplaining about dumping these games are people who payed lot of money for the original games..... Well now more people can play them, you still have the originals, don't be so selfish and don't try to built another explanations, let the "relavity theory" to Einstein.
Imagine that everybody who is working on new developments for the VB decided that they are not free, and that only people who can pay hundreds of dollars will be able to play them...
Please let the VB scene progress, don't act like wolves protecting their valuous wolverines.
VB has a very limited catalogue of games, a hardware that is still very far away from reaching their limits (I'm sure that with a 32 Risc at 20 mghz processor, it is posible to make games based on polygons much better tecnichally than 3d alarm for example).
Give the opportunitty to everybody to play all games, and try to focus on creating new ones, reach the top of the tecnichal power of VB, discover new ways to solve the Glitchy Display Problems, repair the units which appear on Ebay and many places which maybe will end in dumping site...

PD: Maybe a Lenin's secret son??
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#65
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2009/1/25 20:08
VB Gamer
Joined 2007/10/6
34 Posts
Long Time User (12 Years)
Commie bastards! ;)
I don't think the ROMs will ever be released that haven't already. I don't really mind that much. We're arguing against nobody here because a little indirect forum argument over the internet probably won't sway any diehard collector's ideas about whether or not he should share his collection. And that is what it boils down to, really.

I would probably like to see them released, if only for curiosity. But I'm not gonna sit here all day arguing at the air for their release. It's up to the people who own the prototypes, who have the ROMs that no-one else does.

EDIT:
P.S. I hope the communist comment was done as a joke!
Made me laugh.
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#66
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2009/1/25 20:14
VB Gamer
Joined 2008/9/19
25 Posts
Long Time User (11 Years)
DanB: Now that you've discovered my secret, comrade, I must 'dispose' of you ;)

VUE:

I don't support anything that violates someone's trust. However, I don't support greedy behavior. Maybe it's the layered morality of this issue that makes it such a 'hot button'.

Should the original ROM dumper have dumped the ROMs? Well, if there was a contract that he wouldn't, he/she(it?) probably shouldn't have.

Also, if he/she(it?) was their friend, then he/she(it?) probably put that friendship in jeopardy.

However, we have no reason to believe that the original proprietors would ever have released these. So I stand by my statement that, in the end, this was a good thing.

I also believe that the original proprietors are doing a massive disservice. With the exception of a Flashboy or some other, private, home grown solution(maybe the original WarioLand EEPROM hack), they would have needed an emulator to use these ROMs. The emulator authors are able to create those awesome applications because of community support. They need ROMs that utilize all the features of the emulated hardware, acquired one way or the other, to test them fully.

The MAME team, for example, takes donations for dumping arcade boards so they don't die in the end as well as lobbie developers and rights holders to release the titles. They use this for both preservation as well as to aid in the development of the application.

By holding on to these so 'tightly', they are reaping the rewards of a larger community without actually giving back to it.

--Edit: I should rephrase that as "they are reaping the rewards of a larger community without actually giving back to it when they are easily able to without negative consequences" since many people enjoy that which the emulation community produces but have nothing with which to contribute.

While it is a sticky moral question when it comes to the original dump, I disagree with anyone who somehow justifies this protectionist act or chastises a member of this community who really thought he was doing a good thing(and to which I believe he did).

Is it their right? Of course it is. But I think we've all seen enough examples of something not being right, even though it (rightfully so) is a right.

If that makes me a commie, paint me red and Viva la Revolution! ;)
Edited by realyst on 2009/1/25 20:36
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#67
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2013/1/8 8:50
Newbie
Joined 2009/7/18
3 Posts
Long Time User (10 Years)
I wish the roms were still up, and shame on the people insulting the guy who did us all a huge favor that so many jerks were unwilling to do
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#68
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2013/1/8 14:43
PVB Elite
Joined 2011/4/27
USA
2292 Posts
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Quote:

Techni wrote:
I wish the roms were still up, and shame on the people insulting the guy who did us all a huge favor that so many jerks were unwilling to do


All of the ROMs are still up for me, when I log into Planet Virtual Boy.
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#69
Re: Should the unreleased roms be released
Posted on: 2013/1/8 15:03
PVB Elite
Joined 2011/7/1
Germany
1111 Posts
CoderContributorTop10 PosterLong Time User (8 Years) App CoderPVBCC 2013 Entry
Quote:

Benjamin Stevens wrote:
Quote:

Techni wrote:
I wish the roms were still up, and shame on the people insulting the guy who did us all a huge favor that so many jerks were unwilling to do


All of the ROMs are still up for me, when I log into Planet Virtual Boy.


I think you need at least 10 posts or so to see them.
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