You are not logged in.
Lost Password?


Register To Post



 Bottom   Previous Topic   Next Topic

#61
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/11 14:09
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2010/2/14
USA
333 Posts
10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (10 Years)
Quote:

mbuchman wrote:
You are using 60/40 solder, right? And you tinned your iron before using the wick, right? Did you try to use extra flux (as in beyond that in the solder and wick)? You represent yourself as someone who would already have done all this, but never hurts to ask.

When I did it, I did not find it to be tough at all. Maybe you are being too clean and not using enough solder?

And soldering 0603 components is not necessarily similar to soldering fine pitch components :P


Ok, maybe a better comparison would be that I regularly solder TSSOP and TQFP packages? Of course I tinned my iron, although that wouldn't make a whole lot of difference since the iron is going to get tinned anyway when you start making a solder ball. I have a flux pen and a liquid flux syringe that I use and I made sure there was no shortage.

The solder is not the hard part, it's the melted adhesive. It obstructs your view of the traces and it is nearly impossible to see if there are shorts or cold joints, even under a microscope. Also, I can't test for shorts with a continuity tester because the traces are too small and it won't conduct through the coating on the flat cable. So I got to a point yesterday where every line looked soldered ok and no traces were crossing each other. I came home and screwed it back into the VB. I booted up with my fingers crossed and it turns out BOTH displays have the exact same problem - solid/thin horizontal lines evenly spaced out on the screen. I have no clue what the problem is on the display board because I don't know which line(s) would cause this problem. And it seems weird that both boards would have the identical problem.

It looks like I might have to take off the flat cable and solder wires to each of the traces, which is NOT going to be fun. I cannot recommend the solder method to anyone who is not an expert solderer, and even then it is very hard and prone to mistakes.
Top

#62
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/11 14:31
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2003/9/3
Sweden
442 Posts
PVBCC EntryHighscore Top10 3rdCoderContributorHOTY09 2ndLong Time User (15 Years) DonatorApp CoderPVBCC 2010 1st20+ Game RatingsPVBCC 2013 2nd
Quote:

it seems weird that both boards would have the identical problem.


Not really, since most of the address lines are actually shared between both displays. That means that a short on one side will affect both screens.
Top

#63
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/11 15:06
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2010/2/14
USA
333 Posts
10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (10 Years)
Quote:

DanB wrote:
Quote:

it seems weird that both boards would have the identical problem.


Not really, since most of the address lines are actually shared between both displays. That means that a short on one side will affect both screens.


Shoot, so what you're saying is only one of my displays is most likely bad? I don't see any other problems with the image except for those evenly-spaced horizontal lines in both displays. If one of my displays is bad, could I just disconnect it and the other display should appear normal? At least that way I could narrow down my problem to one display.
Top

#64
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/11 15:30
PVB Elite
Joined 2003/7/25
USA
1507 Posts
PVBCC 1stCoderContributor#3 PosterHOTY09 EntryLong Time User (15 Years) App CoderPVBCC 2010 EntryPVBCC 2013 Entry
Quote:

Vaughanabe13 wrote:
Quote:

DanB wrote:
Quote:

it seems weird that both boards would have the identical problem.


Not really, since most of the address lines are actually shared between both displays. That means that a short on one side will affect both screens.


Shoot, so what you're saying is only one of my displays is most likely bad? I don't see any other problems with the image except for those evenly-spaced horizontal lines in both displays. If one of my displays is bad, could I just disconnect it and the other display should appear normal? At least that way I could narrow down my problem to one display.


Yes... unhook one of them to narrow down the bad display. If hooking one of them up causes them both to have lines, you've got a short on that display.

DogP
Top

#65
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/11 19:42
Nintendoid!
Joined 2009/8/11
USA
112 Posts
Long Time User (10 Years)
Tinning does indeed matter when doing anything with an iron! You tin in order to aid in heat transfer. And heat transfer is sorta the name of the game...

It for sure sounds like your issue is only one display. So to remedy your problem, you need to first isolate which one as just discussed. Then, just start at the copper braid section and do that again. You really shouldnt need more flux or solder. And if that doesnt work, you could try the whole process over, but i suspect it will be fixed by then! Sometimes you need to redo it. Magnifying glasses dont help.
Top

#66
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/11 19:51
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2010/2/14
USA
333 Posts
10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (10 Years)
Quote:

Tinning does indeed matter when doing anything with an iron! You tin in order to aid in heat transfer. And heat transfer is sorta the name of the game...


Yes, but you have to create a solder ball on the tip of the iron before you touch the ribbon cable, and simply by playing with the ball on the iron and adding more solder you are tinning the tip. So I was saying it's basically a self-tinning process. But yes, I do understand the importance of tinning.

Quote:

Magnifying glasses dont help.


It's not a magnifying glass, it's a high-zoom lighted lab microscope specifically used in surface mount soldering. It's hugely important in being able to clearly see the traces. I'm not saying you can't do it without one (clearly others on here have been successful) but it REALLY helps.

Also, what is the consensus on using a heat gun? I have access to a very nice focused heat gun that is capable of reflowing the solder on the traces. I'm wondering if that would be easier than using the iron? The only thing I'm worried about is the ribbon cable shifting and getting misaligned while using the heat gun (since the majority of the traces will be moveable under the heat).
Top

#67
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/12 6:19
PVB Elite
Joined 2003/7/25
USA
1507 Posts
PVBCC 1stCoderContributor#3 PosterHOTY09 EntryLong Time User (15 Years) App CoderPVBCC 2010 EntryPVBCC 2013 Entry
I wouldn't use hot air for this. I've destroyed a couple VB displays w/ hot air... it's too easy to overheat the IC. And really, you can't roll the solder ball around with hot air like you can by dragging the solder w/ an iron.

You really need to expose the copper from the cable more than anything, which the hot solder ball does. I personally like using NaOH to expose the copper, then it's just a matter of soldering the cable to the PCB, but as mbuchman's video shows... it's definitely possible without.

DogP
Top

#68
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/12 15:25
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2010/2/14
USA
333 Posts
10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (10 Years)
I checked my VB displays last night. Turns out the left screen has horizontal lines. And the right screen....has horizontal lines, but not as bad. I've been going at this for a few days now and I don't like where I'm at, so I think I'm going to crack open one of my DB-9 cables and solder individual wires from the display board to the main board. I would rather have a permanent solution that I know won't get damaged over time.

Also, in the process of taking my VB apart, I realized what the function is of the red plastic lenses on the eyes is:
1) To protect the mirrors, obviously
2) To hide the LED light bar when the unit is turned off. There's enough light in the system that without the red eye pieces you can see a magnified version of the light bar in each eye. It's actually pretty cool.
Top

#69
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/13 5:35
Nintendoid!
Joined 2009/8/11
USA
112 Posts
Long Time User (10 Years)
Lol @ taking apart db9... only way you will get that to work is with 30 gauge kynar wire...

My theory is that if simple glue held for the first 10 years then I am sure this method will last long enough...

You probably can get away with just repeating the wick part. I can assure you that you are close. The first one I did I had a similar problem, but it was just a quick fix and I didnt have the problem again. No reason to use a $300 soldering iron, or verify with a microscope or xray or whatever else, it is way simpler than you make it seem.

Trust me, I thought it was much more complex too. I spent way too much time researching connectors and trying to come up with other methods... but at the end of the day it just has to work, it doesnt have to be production quality. And this is coming from me, a profectionist!
Top

#70
Re: The VB Glitchy Display Problem
Posted on: 2010/8/13 7:16
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2010/2/14
USA
333 Posts
10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (10 Years)
Quote:

mbuchman wrote:
Lol @ taking apart db9... only way you will get that to work is with 30 gauge kynar wire...

My theory is that if simple glue held for the first 10 years then I am sure this method will last long enough...

You probably can get away with just repeating the wick part. I can assure you that you are close. The first one I did I had a similar problem, but it was just a quick fix and I didnt have the problem again. No reason to use a $300 soldering iron, or verify with a microscope or xray or whatever else, it is way simpler than you make it seem.

Trust me, I thought it was much more complex too. I spent way too much time researching connectors and trying to come up with other methods... but at the end of the day it just has to work, it doesnt have to be production quality. And this is coming from me, a profectionist!


I actually meant DB-15 (only difference is the number of wires). I have no clue why you're laughing, if you are a hacker or DIY person you would know they are great cables for things like this. Inside are 15 individually insulated wires at a small gauge and the insulation of the DB-15 makes for perfect wire management. Wire is wire dude, it will work. But I'm going to try again with the ribbon cable before I go to all the trouble...
Top

 Top   Previous Topic   Next Topic


Register To Post