You are not logged in.
Lost Password?


Register To Post



 Bottom   Previous Topic   Next Topic

#1651
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/15 1:56
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2015/3/28
USA
371 Posts
Long Time User (4 Years)
Ben, I was judging that unit simply by the looks of that box, wich to me looks like extreme sunfade.

The best example of sunfade that I can find, is from a sunfaded VidPro card for WrestleMania Challenge for the Nes...

Check out the red colors on Hulk Hogans headband and on the Ljn rainbow and Nintendo logo, bleached to almost pure White, and that milky blue-ish color can be seen on the faded VidPro card and on that japan VB box.

But yeah I think the only way to know for sure would be to purchase the unit and give it a thorough examination...

If your bidding on it, then good luck!

I hope it's everything you want it to be.

Attach file:



jpg  sunfaded vidpro card 1.jpg (76.09 KB)
8015_56e75cb7e6d06.jpg 722X530 px

png  unfaded image 1.png (431.48 KB)
8015_56e75cd33c214.png 712X541 px
Top

#1652
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/15 9:09
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2015/3/28
USA
371 Posts
Long Time User (4 Years)
Apologies for blowing up the Noteworthy but I just need to say...

Ben, I was at work when I read your last post and sorta only scanned through it really quick. But being home now and actually taking the time to read the whole thing, I have to say that you make some really good points there, especially about the lack of wrappings and missing manual and such...

I honestly don't know what to think of this unit now, but I'm now very curious to find out more. That being said...

I hope you win it.
Top

#1653
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/16 3:43
PVB Elite
Joined 2011/4/27
USA
2291 Posts
Highscore Top10 1stHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreCollection Top10Contributor#2 PosterLong Time User (8 Years) 30+ Game Ratings
Hey, vuefinder83.

I read both of your posts and appreciate your comments.

First of all, I want to say that I won't be bidding on the auction, as it seems the auction's seller has created a restriction that won't allow my proxy service to place a bid for me.

But secondly, I was looking at all of the VidoPro cards of that eBay seller, cheapgamestuff, from whom you got the picture of the Wrestlemania VidPro card, and what I saw seemed to confirm my suspicions. If you observe his many NES and SNES vidpro cards that he has for sale, you will see that almost all of them have had their colors reduced to very light red, yellow, and blue only. The important thing to note with this is that whenever something was originally a nice red, it has been reduced to a very light red, and nice yellow colors have been reduced to very light yellow colors, while nearly all other colors have been reduced to a light blue.

Before viewing all of these, I highly doubted that red would be able to be reduced to a blue color, since red and blue are primary colors with both light and ink. All of these VidPro cards now make me almost 100% certain that red cannot be reduced to a light blue. It can be reduced to a very light red and maybe an almost white, as you yourself noted, but not to any form of blue.

Perhaps you can now see why this makes me even more certain that the light blue Virtual Boy on the box front was never a nice red color, for if it had been, and it had its color reduced from sunlight, it should now be a very light red or almost white color.
Top

#1654
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/16 7:36
PVB Elite
Joined 2011/4/27
USA
2291 Posts
Highscore Top10 1stHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreCollection Top10Contributor#2 PosterLong Time User (8 Years) 30+ Game Ratings
Quote:

Benjamin Stevens wrote:
Hey, vuefinder83.

I read both of your posts and appreciate your comments.

First of all, I want to say that I won't be bidding on the auction, as it seems the auction's seller has created a restriction that won't allow my proxy service to place a bid for me.

But secondly, I was looking at all of the VidoPro cards of that eBay seller, cheapgamestuff, from whom you got the picture of the Wrestlemania VidPro card, and what I saw seemed to confirm my suspicions. If you observe his many NES and SNES vidpro cards that he has for sale, you will see that almost all of them have had their colors reduced to very light red, yellow, and blue only. The important thing to note with this is that whenever something was originally a nice red, it has been reduced to a very light red, and nice yellow colors have been reduced to very light yellow colors, while nearly all other colors have been reduced to a light blue.

Before viewing all of these, I highly doubted that red would be able to be reduced to a blue color, since red and blue are primary colors with both light and ink. All of these VidPro cards now make me almost 100% certain that red cannot be reduced to a light blue. It can be reduced to a very light red and maybe an almost white, as you yourself noted, but not to any form of blue.

Perhaps you can now see why this makes me even more certain that the light blue Virtual Boy on the box front was never a nice red color, for if it had been, and it had its color reduced from sunlight, it should now be a very light red or almost white color.


Actually, to further prove my point, let's closely examine one of the seller's NES VidPro cards and compare it to its NES box counterpart. I chose Smash TV for this example, as it originally contained very nice red and blue colors, as well as other major colors like yellow, green, and purple.

If you observe the very sunfaded VidPro card and compare it to the game box, which shows what the colors on the VidPro card used to be, you can plainly see that what used to be deep red colors have become light red, and bright yellow colors have become light yellow, orange colors have become lighter oranges or closer to lighter yellow colors, while greens and blues have become forms of light blues, while the purples on the bows have actually become light reds.

But the thing I want you to notice the most is this: Look at the bad guys in the background. They were originally all black, white, and gray, but their gray colors, as a result of sunfade, have become a light blue. I don't know of any better way to help prove 1 of 2 possibilities:

1. The image on the front of the Virtual Boy box largely appears with the same colors that appeared when it was originally printed.
2. If number 1 is not true, then the image on the front of the Virtual Boy box in the auction in question used to be a completely colorless image, otherwise known as a black and white image, but as a result of sunfade, the gray areas have turned a light blue over time.

Attach file:



png  Smash TV VidPro Card.png (1,498.91 KB)
1643_56e8fecd8e616.png 729X894 px

png  Smash TV Box.png (3,298.02 KB)
1643_56e8fee243d83.png 962X1339 px
Top

#1655
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/16 12:38
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2011/4/8
Great Britain
417 Posts
Long Time User (8 Years)
Forgive me but this is getting a bit weird - but sunfading on one thing doesn't necessarily correlate with sunfading on another print.

Having said that - in CMYK (cyan, magenta, yellow, black) prints - red (or at least magenta) is the first colour to fade because of the way light and colour fundamentally work. You can read a bit about this here:
http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/qu ... ight-cause-colors-to-fade

Also bear in mind that when you see red or blue on a print - it's rarely 100% that colour only. There will be mixes of cyan, magenta, yellow and black of course - even on something that looks straight up red or blue.

CMYK is used on most packaging these days, but in the 70s and 80s lesser channels were common and on things like art prints from galleries, more channels are used to give a fuller range of colour.

With enough time and exposure, even black will turn to blue. It's important to remember that comparing one example of sunfade against another is not exactly a fair test, use it for illustration but it all depends on how long they've been exposed, in what part of the world and what inks were used.

This is shown in one picture of a VB box earlier in the thread that had the red VB turn more yellow. That is the red (magenta) fading and leaving yellow underneath which hasn't faded yet. Magenta+yellow = red basically, so that's why when the magenta fades you see the yellow still. With added exposure that will also fade.

So this is what you see on the Smash TV card. Magenta has fully faded, yellow has faded a good amount and almost fully in some places, remaining in darker areas where some other colours are mixed (i.e. shadows).

Let's not forget that Japan gets a decent amount of sun and UV. Even in England, where we don't get a lot of sun and VB necessarily, you see this sunfading on certain printing especially cheap) and a common sight of this are those damn blue crisp packets. Even in my conservatory though, some of our holiday photos have sunfade - these were prints from Thailand where I imagine they used relatively cheap printing.



There was some misunderstanding on how prints react to sunfade, so I hope this info helps. The crisp example I originally pasted is a good illustration of this as they went for the cheapest printing possible in the 70s and 80s with only a couple of channels. They would not use CMYK, but a cyan-like blue and a decent red. The red has completely faded and the blue is much more resilient, because these colours are at polar ends of the spectrum (click that first link for an overview).

Regarding this auction and the box in question - I am certain this is not a misprint or rare intermediary version - for additional reasons regarding the manufacturing process and more, but I don't think I need to go into those now. I don't want this to become a tit for tat type thread, but it's important to remain objective and I haven't seen anything to suggest it's more than sunfade to be honest. My 'like new' VB came with a very nice full colour box, but with certain other things missing inside ironically (baggie, visor card and one or two leaflets).


All being said, the only way to know for sure with this particular auction is to buy it and inspect the other sides of the box and other details like serial number - which will make everything 100% clear I'm sure, without taking my word for it on the above.
Top

#1656
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/17 2:08
PVB Elite
Joined 2011/4/27
USA
2291 Posts
Highscore Top10 1stHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreCollection Top10Contributor#2 PosterLong Time User (8 Years) 30+ Game Ratings
Wow... L___E___T, you apparently missed the fact that I completely debunked your crisp example with 2 very brief sentences that say all that needs to be said. It is obvious that none of my other reasoning has been thought about by you at all either. With that being said, I am simply going to make one last effort to try to get you to listen to reason, and then I am done trying, as you would rather believe what you want to believe than listen to reason.

If one carefully and thoroughly observes all of the dozens and dozens of VidPro cards with severe sunfading, concerning which I provided the means to find and observe these in my previous post, one should be able to figure out how the changing of colors through fading by sunlight or white light from another source works. The general principle that reveals itself is that the white light, whether from the Sun or some artificial source, is trying to "bleach" the colors of the object being hit by it, in order to make the object become "white" like itself, or rather, in order to eliminate all colors of the object and leave no color behind. Nevertheless, the 3 "primary" (with reference to the ROYGBIV color model as a reference, which seems to work best for what our eyes can see and for this particular discussion) colors - red, yellow, and blue - are the colors that are the strongest at withstanding the whitening or eliminating power of the white light, which is why these are the 3 colors seen last on objects during the color-fading process from white light. Therefore, for the most part, if a certain color on an object predominantly consists of red, as this color gets hit by the light and approaches closer and closer to white, the red color will still persist and show itself unto the end, while the lesser colors within become whitened or eliminated first. And the same thing applies, for the most part, to colors that predominantly consist of either yellow or blue. So for the most part, even if a red color on an object has a little bit of yellow or blue added to it, in order to change its shade of red, while the little bit of yellow or blue will, in fact, be overtaken and eliminated by the white light early on during the fading process, the majority amount of red will keep standing until the bitter end, should it ever fully progress that far, and since the little bit of yellow or blue within the red was never strong enough to show itself in the first place, which is why the object originally appeared red to one's eyes, it will certainly never become strong enough to show itself during the whitening process as the white light eliminates both it and the predominant primary color. This is because every color within is becoming whitened and eliminated during this process, with no addition of any particular color to change the predominant primary color to one of the other primary colors. Once again, the same thing applies to colors that predominantly consist of yellow or blue, which have a little bit of one or both of the other 2 primary colors added to them to change their shades a little. The predominant amount of the primary color will, for the most part, prevail and show itself forth unto the end, while the weaker primary colors within the color become eliminated first and never become strong enough to show themselves over the predominant primary color. Now, the reason why I have been adding the phrase "for the most part" is because of the special properties of blue. Among the 3 primary colors - red, yellow, and blue - blue is the best or "strongest" color at withstanding the whitening power of the sunlight or other white light hitting it, so it becomes eliminated at a slower rate than the other two primary colors, and this is a fact that is definitely verifiable through independent research. Thus, it would probably be the case that if you had a color consisting of 45% blue and 55% percent red or yellow, because blue is stronger than the other primary color of either red or yellow - how much stronger, I admittedly do not know and thus cannot quantify - and is, therefore, better at withstanding the whitening power of the light, the blue might be the one to prevail at some point, while the red or yellow color becomes whitened first, in which case the blue might show itself more at a certain point in time and then unto the end of the whitening process. Nevertheless, with only small amounts of blue being added to red or yellow, the blue is not even close to being strong enough to ever show itself over the red or yellow that overpowers it because of its majority hold on the color, so in those cases, the small amount of blue succumbs to the whitening power first, becoming eliminated and never revealing itself. In other words, the original color would really have to be close to being a blue in the first place over a red or yellow, in order for it to have a chance to prevail during the fading process due to its little bit of extra strength at resisting the whitening process, so such would probably only happen in cases like with purples that had a little more red than blue and with greens that had a little more yellow than blue.

This is why in every single case among the dozens and dozens of VidPro cards that have succumbed to fading by white light - in most cases for longer periods of time than the unique Virtual Boy box - whenever a color originally appeared as any form or shade of the primary color red, it continues to remain red as it is approaching a more white color, even though it may have had a little bit of yellow and/or blue added to it originally to change its shade of red, in which case the yellow and/or blue are getting wiped out quicker, or have already been fully eliminated, during the fading process and therefore cannot show themselves over the overpowering amount of red that still remains with the color. And the same thing applies to all original shades of the primary colors yellow and blue, even with some of them having a little bit of one or both of the other primary colors being added to them to change their shades somewhat. In no case with any shade of red or yellow does any shade of blue begin to reveal itself as the red or yellow approaches white. But as I said, with the color blue, there is indeed the unique property that it is stronger and better at resisting the whitening power of the white light than the other 2 primary colors, though it is certainly not "invincible" to it, which again I will say can be verified by independent research. This begs the question: What happens in the case when you have the same amount of each of the 3 colors - red, yellow, and blue - being mixed together, which just so happens in the case of the "color" black, which is a combination of an equal amount of all colors? Since blue is stronger than the other 2 primary colors and becomes reduced or whitened at a slower rate than them, it prevails over them during the whitening process, even though it's original percentage within the black was the same as theirs. Thus, as black or a shade of gray gets faded by the white light hitting it, the blue within begins to show itself, rather than the red or yellow. This is why when sunfaded pictures are observed, blue is often noticed so much more than the other two colors, red and yellow, especially in cases with colored drawings that originally had a lot of black outlines, shadows, etc. with each object pictured. All of the black and grays begin to turn blue, so everything begins to look outlined with blue or shadowed with blue, etc., and one's eyes notice that more than the light reddish or yellowish colors within the objects pictured.

With all of this being explained, I am going to add that it would be more plausible that a wizard waved a magic wand on a red color to make it blue than that a red color turned to blue as a result of sunfade. Seriously... everything that I have written is based on the law of light, which is part of the laws of nature, which remain consistent for all time. You will never find a genuine case of a red color turning to blue from sunfade, not in any of the dozens and dozens of examples that I tried to point you to and not in any other example on this earth at any point in time. Of this, I am 100% certain, which is why I know you will never be able to show me a genuine case of such.
Top

#1657
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/17 11:24
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2011/4/8
Great Britain
417 Posts
Long Time User (8 Years)
Ben I was really hoping you weren't going to react that strongly, as noted, because it is just a box and I made no emotional statement or reaction towards you, even sent you a kind enough PM so you'd be assured there was no strong feeling on my side.

But that aside, your rundown is not quite how colour is set up in printing and it's not how UV fades print colours - I did go into that in my last post and if you really don't believe me you could ask someone in printing, like UncleTusk perhaps.

But in short - red doesn't turn to blue. If it appears blue on the VB box - that's the magenta layer having completely faded, yellow layer also completely faded, then any black and blue layers remaining visible because those inks don't fade as fast.

Black isn't a mixture of all three of those - it's it's own separate channel. This is commonplace printing on packaging - it works like this: https://designschool.canva.com/wp-cont ... design-differences-11.jpg

Something I did to try and help you see this is split the CMYK layers out manually in Photoshop. You can have the image in there as CMYK (screens display in RGB but printing is CMYK) and then subtract the magenta and yellow channels to show what blue is left. The results make it really clear I think.

This isn't me trying to cause any upset - but you couldn't see what I was trying to illustrate with the crisps and this illustrates it much better. When the magenta and yellow fade completely, you are left with blue and black only. The red VB on the box has traces of blue in the shadows and also some black.

You can do this in Photoshop or another good image program if you want to see for yourself. The VidPro thing was a better example than a crisp packet sure - but that's a completely separate image.

Attach file:



png  unfaded box - magenta and yellow and cyan and black.png (337.04 KB)
1623_56ea84f02b667.png 1600X798 px

png  no magenta - just yellow and cyan and black.png (313.25 KB)
1623_56ea84fa69bbc.png 1600X798 px

png  no magenta and no yellow - cyan and black only.png (292.97 KB)
1623_56ea85025710a.png 1600X798 px
Top

#1658
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/19 16:22
PVB Elite
Joined 2011/4/27
USA
2291 Posts
Highscore Top10 1stHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreHighscore Top ScoreCollection Top10Contributor#2 PosterLong Time User (8 Years) 30+ Game Ratings
You upset me by your revealing that you hadn't even read anything that I had written. If you had, you would have noticed that I had already debunked your Smiths Crisps bag example, and yet you told me to look at it a second time, as if I hadn't already contemplated it. Showing people a Smiths Crisp bag that was originally printed in all blue and then telling them to trust you that there used to be red in it is not a way to prove that red can fade from light and leave behind a nice light blue. Neither did you acknowledge any of the details I provided to show how the present contents of the box strongly indicate a good chance of the box containing an early system, rather than just being the result of a misprint. But that's okay, I mainly wrote that for VUE Finder, knowing that it would mean something to him, since I know he knows a lot about the early systems and their packaging. But anyway, if it were possible for red to fade from sunlight and leave behind a nice light blue, why can't I find a single example of it on the internet? I have spent hours and hours trying to prove YOUR point, probably many more hours than you have, and I can't find a single photo or credible mention of red fading and leaving behind a light blue anywhere online, which is why I was hoping you could spend the time and find at least one for me, since you are so confident that it can happen.

Also, changing the color of an image in Photoshop in no way comes close to mimicking what happens when a mostly white LIGHT fades the colors of PIGMENT on an object over time, which is why when I find examples to prove my point, I pick examples of real world cases, such as this one:

Look at the definitely sunfaded Virtual Boy box and compare it to the unique box containing the light blue Virtual Boy. This is most likely a case where a Virtual Boy box had been left near a window, and only part of it was exposed to much sunlight for quite some time.

Now, the first thing to notice is that if you look at the red of the Virtual Boy that has significantly faded from the light, in no way at all is it beginning to leave behind the nice blue color that is seen in the unique Virtual Boy box. One should be able to tell that if it is exposed to more and more light over time, it will continue to approach closer and closer to white, and the blue in the unique Virtual Boy box will never miraculously manifest itself.

But the second and even more important thing to notice is the black near the Virtual Boy that has also faded from sunlight. Notice how much lighter this black is than the black that appears in the same spot on the unique Virtual Boy box with the light blue Virtual Boy. Consider how much lighter the black on the sunfaded Virtual Boy box would be, if the red was completely reduced to white. If you still want to believe that the Virtual Boy on the unique box had all of its red completely faded, and a light blue somehow was left behind, then how would you explain how the black around the Virtual Boy hasn't faded much more significantly, along with the red?

I guess I should also point out how the Photoshop example you provided only further helps to prove that the Virtual Boy on the box isn't a result of sunfading. The parts near the top of the Virtual Boy in the image you made are extremely close to being completely white, while the same spots on the Virtual Boy of the unique box are a much nicer and deeper blue. Plus, I can still see red in the buttons of the controller and in the text on the box of your example, which I'm not seeing on the unique Virtual Boy box.

Attach file:



png  Sunfaded Virtual Boy.png (1,061.28 KB)
1643_56ed6e3f7e2db.png 802X680 px

png  Unique VB Box.png (419.54 KB)
1643_56ed6e679b151.png 602X452 px

png  Sunfaded Virtual Boy (2).png (2,114.16 KB)
1643_56ed6e8f4f877.png 1600X1063 px

png  Sunfaded Virtual Boy (3).png (2,161.79 KB)
1643_56ed6eb703c89.png 1600X1063 px
Edited by Benjamin Stevens on 2016/3/19 16:38
Edited by Benjamin Stevens on 2016/3/19 16:54
Top

#1659
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/19 22:57
PVB Elite
Joined 2007/10/26
USA
757 Posts
ContributorTop10 PosterLong Time User (11 Years) Donator
Can you guys take this to a private pm or something ?
Top

#1660
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Threadô
Posted on: 2016/3/20 1:23
VUE(xpert)
Joined 2011/4/8
Great Britain
417 Posts
Long Time User (8 Years)
I think that's best - I don't want to cause unnecessary embarrassment by going through and picking apart all the inaccuracies, and I don't think the forum is gaining anything from it at this point.

I will say that if someone from here does win the VB - please, please do the right thing and post pics when it arrives :D
Top

 Top   Previous Topic   Next Topic


Register To Post