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#1941
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 07.05.2018 14:59
PVB Elite
Dabei seit 09.07.2012
USA
836 Beiträge
Top10 PosterLong Time User (7 Years) 20+ Game Ratings
https://m.ebay.com/itm/Virtual-League- ... 442fd7:g:2u4AAOSw4GVYRv1t

Even though it is a lame game to own on prototype, it’s still super uncommon to see any proto.

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#1942
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 07.05.2018 21:39
Nintendoid!
Dabei seit 18.09.2015
Kanada
162 Beiträge
Collection Top10Long Time User (4 Years)
Ok so there are two things going on: This maker of repro games does a lot for the VB community, and at the same time charges an exorbitant amount for a particular repro VB game, near certainly with the intention of fooling people into thinking they're getting a copy from the original highly-sought after batch to justify the goliath price tag.

Can we all just agree on that? It seems like all the parties debating this are not acknowledging one of these facts or the other. We should all be saying "Thanks for all your hard work for the community Kevin, by the way that's a shady thing you're doing with Hyper Fighting." It's ok, that really seems like the fact here. Even if the creator of Hyper Fighting steps out of the shadows and settles any issues today, this should have been done before the very first sale if ethics were a concern.

DreamMary: That Virtual League Baseball proto has been on eBay for nearly two years now, we've discussed it in this thread before. tl;dr version: The owner has no idea of the value of the proto, and so is shooting for the stars basing the price off of TG-16 protos, which the seller feels are just as niche and desirable. As you can tell by the 2 year-old listing, his feeling is misguided lol.
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#1943
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 09.05.2018 16:01
VUE(xpert)
Dabei seit 28.07.2007
Großbritannien
336 Beiträge
Long Time User (12 Years) App Coder
Zitat:
if ethics were a concern.


Money > ethics in this case :(
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#1944
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 09.05.2018 17:09
PVB Elite
Dabei seit 17.06.2013
Kanada
1228 Beiträge
Top10 Poster10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (6 Years)
Zitat:

Quaze wrote:
Ok so there are two things going on: This maker of repro games does a lot for the VB community, and at the same time charges an exorbitant amount for a particular repro VB game, near certainly with the intention of fooling people into thinking they're getting a copy from the original highly-sought after batch to justify the goliath price tag.

Can we all just agree on that? It seems like all the parties debating this are not acknowledging one of these facts or the other. We should all be saying "Thanks for all your hard work for the community Kevin, by the way that's a shady thing you're doing with Hyper Fighting." It's ok, that really seems like the fact here. Even if the creator of Hyper Fighting steps out of the shadows and settles any issues today, this should have been done before the very first sale if ethics were a concern.


Thank you for actually reading.

It's all about taking someone elses work, copying it, and selling it without the original creators consent. Hyper Fighting just happens to be the one that has market value/exposure. I already said it before, but I'll say it again. I have no problems with repros being made, as long as the creator of the rom and the person selling have actually talked and made an agreement.

Remember the Rose Colored Gaming thing where they were selling games that were made by people who didn't give them consent to sell their games at all, and everyone was pissed off? Same idea.
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#1945
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 09.05.2018 20:40
Nintendoid!
Dabei seit 12.05.2016
USA
150 Beiträge
Long Time User (4 Years)
Ok I wasn't going to ask this but since you keep bringing it up, I'm going to. Just keep in mind, I'm trying to make sense of this and not attacking anyone.

How is it any worse for Mellott to make a repro cart of the game when MK is "taking someone else's work" (Capcom's) and "copying it" (Street Fighter). "Without the original creators consent." (Again, Capcom's).

If you are going to be upset at Mellott shouldn't you be upset at MK also? (arguably more so)

Zitat:

speedyink wrote:
Thank you for actually reading.

It's all about taking someone elses work, copying it, and selling it without the original creators consent. Hyper Fighting just happens to be the one that has market value/exposure. I already said it before, but I'll say it again. I have no problems with repros being made, as long as the creator of the rom and the person selling have actually talked and made an agreement.

Remember the Rose Colored Gaming thing where they were selling games that were made by people who didn't give them consent to sell their games at all, and everyone was pissed off? Same idea.
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#1946
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 09.05.2018 23:03
PVB Elite
Dabei seit 17.06.2013
Kanada
1228 Beiträge
Top10 Poster10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (6 Years)
Zitat:

Levine91 wrote:
Ok I wasn't going to ask this but since you keep bringing it up, I'm going to. Just keep in mind, I'm trying to make sense of this and not attacking anyone.

How is it any worse for Mellott to make a repro cart of the game when MK is "taking someone else's work" (Capcom's) and "copying it" (Street Fighter). "Without the original creators consent." (Again, Capcom's).

If you are going to be upset at Mellott shouldn't you be upset at MK also? (arguably more so)


No worries, you gotta know somehow.

MK didn't rip SF2 from a cart, burn it to another cart and then resell it. All the code, all the assets, everything was created from scratch, by MK. Even though it looks just like SF2, it was entirely built from the ground up with SF2 as the inspiration.

Had Kevin coded another Hyper Fighting from the ground up, using MK's work as inspiration, and sold that, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Then instead of selling someone elses work on a cart, he's now selling his own code on a cart.

I don't think Kevin is a bad guy, he clearly has done some awesome stuff for the community. No matter who it is though, taking someone elses work and reselling it without permission just doesn't sit well to me. Maybe I'm being over protective, but the VB community is something special, and means a lot to me. I don't want anyone feeling like they've been taken advantage of.
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#1947
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 09.05.2018 23:14
PVB Elite
Dabei seit 09.07.2012
USA
836 Beiträge
Top10 PosterLong Time User (7 Years) 20+ Game Ratings
Excellent explanation speedyink, and much more elegantly explained then anything I could have written.
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#1948
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 10.05.2018 0:26
Nintendoid!
Dabei seit 12.05.2016
USA
150 Beiträge
Long Time User (4 Years)
Zitat:

speedyink wrote:
No worries, you gotta know somehow.

MK didn't rip SF2 from a cart, burn it to another cart and then resell it. All the code, all the assets, everything was created from scratch, by MK. Even though it looks just like SF2, it was entirely built from the ground up with SF2 as the inspiration.

Had Kevin coded another Hyper Fighting from the ground up, using MK's work as inspiration, and sold that, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Then instead of selling someone elses work on a cart, he's now selling his own code on a cart.

I don't think Kevin is a bad guy, he clearly has done some awesome stuff for the community. No matter who it is though, taking someone elses work and reselling it without permission just doesn't sit well to me. Maybe I'm being over protective, but the VB community is something special, and means a lot to me. I don't want anyone feeling like they've been taken advantage of.


So if that's how it's felt, what is there to worry about Capcom attacking with copyright infringement for the full ROM coming out? You can say inspired all you want it's still character designs, character names, box art, stages, etc that Capcom designed themselves. Whether or not someone else figured out how to design the sprites or code themselves, it's all still content/art that Capcom owns.

I really don't care if someone went through and did this with 100 different games that already exist or even someone else selling them as repro carts. I just think it's ridiculous that there seems to be a double standard going on when talking about stealing content.
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#1949
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 10.05.2018 3:04
PVB Elite
Dabei seit 17.06.2013
Kanada
1228 Beiträge
Top10 Poster10+ Game RatingsLong Time User (6 Years)
Zitat:

Levine91 wrote:
So if that's how it's felt, what is there to worry about Capcom attacking with copyright infringement for the full ROM coming out? You can say inspired all you want it's still character designs, character names, box art, stages, etc that Capcom designed themselves. Whether or not someone else figured out how to design the sprites or code themselves, it's all still content/art that Capcom owns.

I really don't care if someone went through and did this with 100 different games that already exist or even someone else selling them as repro carts. I just think it's ridiculous that there seems to be a double standard going on when talking about stealing content.


Why do you think it was never publicly available for sale? Hyper Fighting was a project of love, it never was nor was it intended to be sold publicly or for profit. Would you expect Nintendo for coming after you for making yourself a fan drawing of Nintendo characters for you and your friends? No, not until you pump them out and put them up for sale is there a problem. These repros of the original Hyper Fighting are the first time they've been produced for public sale. Anything before that was part of a very small run made for the community, and even when personal copies went up for sale people had a problem with it, as that was not the intention for them.

Back to the fan drawing analogy, imagine if someone copied your drawing you never publicly sold and then..put it up for sale. Now it's not only lame that someone took it, but now they're also drawing more attention to it which isn't good for all the reasons you just said. It makes you look bad, even though you never planned to do that in the first place.

Trust me, there's a whole lot about this game you clearly don't know, and it's why people are so touchy about it.
Bearbeitet von speedyink am 10.05.2018 3:17:08
Bearbeitet von speedyink am 10.05.2018 3:18:50
Bearbeitet von speedyink am 10.05.2018 3:29:47
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#1950
Re: The Noteworthy Auction Thread™
Geschrieben am: 10.05.2018 5:05
Nintendoid!
Dabei seit 12.05.2016
USA
150 Beiträge
Long Time User (4 Years)
Zitat:

speedyink wrote:
Why do you think it was never publicly available for sale? Hyper Fighting was a project of love, it never was nor was it intended to be sold publicly or for profit. Would you expect Nintendo for coming after you for making yourself a fan drawing of Nintendo characters for you and your friends? No, not until you pump them out and put them up for sale is there a problem. These repros of the original Hyper Fighting are the first time they've been produced for public sale. Anything before that was part of a very small run made for the community, and even when personal copies went up for sale people had a problem with it, as that was not the intention for them.

Back to the fan drawing analogy, imagine if someone copied your drawing you never publicly sold and then..put it up for sale. Now it's not only lame that someone took it, but now they're also drawing more attention to it which isn't good for all the reasons you just said. It makes you look bad, even though you never planned to do that in the first place.

Trust me, there's a whole lot about this game you clearly don't know, and it's why people are so touchy about it.


If there is a whole lot that I don't know, then please share, as I'm certain I'm not the only one in that boat.

If people are donating money to the project and are getting a copy in return, yes, I would expect Nintendo, Capcom, or whoever to come after me. If that very small run was for sale exclusively within the community, it would be no different than if they were sold publicly. Just less attention. It would still be against the morals you are talking about.

This would also bring into question, why is no one worried or upset about repros of other official games being publicly for sale (Bound High, SD Gundam, etc).
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