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#1
why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/9/18 1:16

Joined 2006/9/16
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years)
for the new wii system through emulation and hand out 3d glasses or something or just release them to the public as roms? its not like theyre profiting from those games, so why keep them hidden?
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#2
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/11 18:51

Joined 2006/10/10
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years)
Yeah, a petition would be great if they actually worked :( Regardless, me and my bro were discussing the potentials of the Wii's "Virtual Console" and VB came up almost immediatley. How awesome would it be to play Red Alarm on a big screen TV? VB Wario Land? Plus the prospect of unreleased VB games is awesome. Then we would know if any of the cancelled games were as good as they were expected to be.
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#3
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/17 9:29

Joined 2006/10/15
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years) App Coder
[i]How awesome would it be to play Red Alarm on a big screen TV?[/i]

The truth is that most VB users fell in love with this game, because of the 3d effect and its unique nature. The actual games are not so great at all, compared to hundreds of games out there. You mention Red Alarm. It is not bad, but pales in comparison with the Descent series in the 90s. I played Descent with the 3d stereoglass on my computer, and believe me, it is far, far better than Red Alarm (while the concept is pretty much the same). The same applies to most other VB games (they have a much better equivalent which can be played in 3d).

The VB lovers should get out and find and buy a 3d stereoglass (LCD stereoglass, LCD shutterglass in other names) and try it. You will be all surprized how very excellent the 3d quality is, how great games can be played that way. Don't get me wrong, I love my VB, play it regularly, but many other options are available in the 3d world.

Gabor
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#4
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/17 20:30

Joined 2006/10/10
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years)
Yeah, I see what you mean. I'm just saying that it would be cool to play these games on a TV throught the Wii's Virtual Console mode. Plus, we poor people could play all the games we'll never get a chance to otherwise (SD Gundam, Virtual Bowling, Virtual Lab, etc.) And yeah, lots of games are better than Red Alarm. I greatly prefer Star Fox for SNES in terms of gameplay. However, Wario Land is just a good game. It is better than lots of 2 Dimesnsional Platformers that were released in the 80's and 90's. Only Mario, Bonk's Adventure, and Sonic could possibly compare to it.
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#5
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/18 20:34

Joined 2006/10/15
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years) App Coder
Wow, I am not the only one who writes here, I am impressed (:-)

However, Wario Land is just a good game. It is better than lots of 2 Dimesnsional Platformers that were released in the 80's and 90's.

Wario land is pretty much the same as the Mario series on the NES and the Gameboy (before Gameboy Advance). It is not really 3d, other than the two plane setup (background and foreground action). And yes, it is a good "Mario" game. I for one loved the first two Gameboy Mario editions the most. As a GAME, the Golden Coins, were better than Wario Land.

My top favorite on the VB, believe it or not, Galactic Pinball. Why?
Well, I played many, many pinball games and Galactic Pinball can claim to be really different. As a GAME. The sliding puck, the "ice surface", the side games, the entire setup was designed by a very original mind, whoever he was. And it takes full advantage of the 3d ability of VB, which unfortunately not many of the VB game does. My only gripe: it is too easy, I can play it 2-3 hours, a single game. Even then, I usually just forfeit the last couple of pucks, because I have to do something else. Perhaps they should have put a three puck mode, but I don't want to complain because it is still my favorite.

And of course the grossly undevalued Mario Tennis, which is ultra-cute, fun, fully 3d, great little game. Excellent level settings, if you clumsy, you can enjoy it, if you are very good, you can enjoy it. One thing I will never understand, why only 7 players (instead of the logical 8, if there are tournaments).
Mario Clash is okay, something one would play if he has an empty half an hour. Red Alarm is not bad, but too easy. I went all the way through on Normal the second time I ever tried (not on Hard however).

Golf is horrible. I mean, it maybe a standard golf game, but that's where the red-black, 4 shades is just grossly insufficent.

I just got baseball, it is not bad so far, although to control the outfield with limited color (who is who), by moving together kind of limits the possibilities.

Vertical Force standard shooting game, absolute kills the fun that the score vanishes at the moment you lose the last player and it is never shown again. That is downright stupid and irritating. And at certain points the visibility becomes confusing due to the monochrome nature of the game

Panic Bomber, Tetris spinoff. Why isn't any score? No matter how much the designer tried to pretend that this is some adventure game, it isn't.
--------------------------------
So, overall the entire selection of VB games suffer from some fundamental design problems, the type which were mostly solved by the mid 90-s. I wonder, despite the monochrome nature, if the first series of games were up to par with the rest of the game world, would VB have still failed. I don't know, because it does have some other problems too (you can't share the fun, not even a TV hookup) and most kids enjoy that the most (competing against each other), not even two player mode in most games I know, but still, the ultimate downfall in my opinion was the fundamentally poorly designed games in comparison with the existing other game technologies at the time.
And I understand that these are the better ones, some of the rare ones are really lousy (yet collectors pay big bucks for them).

During the early 90s the term "virtual reality" became a fad. Yet, nothing which would lead toward virtual reality succeeded. The LCD stereoglasses came out too early, when the picture was still flickery and headache generating, the HMDs are extremely expensive, the Virtual Boy was a flop for several reasons. Here we are a decade and a half later, and not one step closer to virtual reality. While technologically it would be very possible, since everything needed for it has been invented, yet there is not even a trace became reality. Too bad, because it would be really neat.

Worse yet, now that the LCD screens became popular, even the LCD stereoglasses won't work, so going backwards even in that technology.

Gabor
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#6
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/18 23:02

Joined 2006/10/10
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years)
Good points. I can also see the charm in Galactic Pinball, it has held my attention on many otherwise boring car rides. However, I disagree with you on Panic Bomber. True, it is a Tetris clone, but that doesn't make it bad. And I don't see it as a puzzle in the guise of an Adventure game, but a puzzle game with a story, although its more like a shallow attempt of a story. And yes, Mario's Tennis is underrated. The game is great, and was the first I ever played on the Virtual Boy. I have yet to play Mario Clash, but I am a large fan of the original Mario Bros, which Clash is based heavily upon, so I would probably like the game. Golf is a true bore of a game, and, in my own opinion, so is Baseball. However, Vertical Force is very good. It is a wonderful shooter from a company known for their shooting games. True, the score resetting could be annoying, but really that only applies to certain gamers. It's comparable to Super Mario Bros. on the NES: There is a score, but most would simply strive to defeat the game.

And the last note you addressed, I couldn't agree with you more. The technology is perfected enough for a satisfactory experience, but no one really cares anymore. And lots of rare games are really crappy (Virtual Lab, anyone?). However, there are exceptions to the rule: Space Invaders ~ Virtual Collection, Space Squash, Jack Bros, Virtual Bowling (it is if you like bowling games). Also, in my own opinion, I love Insmouse No Yakata. I am one of the few, but I love it.

Well, there's more of my (possibly unwanted) opinion. ;)
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#7
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/19 15:54

Joined 2006/10/15
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years) App Coder
[i]I have yet to play Mario Clash....[/i]

Get one on Ebay. It is definitely one of the better VB entries.

[i]I am a large fan of the original Mario Bros, which Clash is based heavily upon,[/i]

I too used to like the original Mario Bros, but Clash is significantly better with far more depth (pun intended) and variations. If you liked Mario Bros, you will be addicted to Clash.

[i] The technology is perfected enough for a satisfactory experience, but no one really cares anymore. [/i]

You know what the interesting part of this story? That there is no question in my mind, that the next logical step in gaming, is 3d. No way around that. Once they reach the max graphical capabilities (ie: looks perfectly real), there is nowhere else to go (improve), but to make it 3d, to start manufacturing some kind of virtual reality setup. Except nobody will sink large sums of monies in such technology, before some "early versions" would succeed. That, can't be anything else, but a cheap HMD (head mounted display) with stereo sound and some virtual game controller.
It just has to be this way. Yet, nobody dares to jump into it for some reason. The first company with guts, will make heavy billions on this.

[i]True, the score resetting could be annoying, but really that only applies to certain gamers. It's comparable to Super Mario Bros. on the NES: There is a score, but most would simply strive to defeat the game.[/i]

I respectfully disagree. Arcade style games always should have score.
An arcade style game should never end, only recycle faster, more and more difficult. The score is important emotionally, since if the player can't point blank defeat the game (as it happens more often that otherwise), the player doesn't have to walk away with the empty feeling that "I achieved nothing". I didn't beat Mario Clash, yet I am "proud" of achieving higher and higher scores. Otherwise I would find it infuriating, just to play and play for nothing. Also, don't forget, Super Mario did have a real story (sort of).

[i]And lots of rare games are really crappy (Virtual Lab, anyone?). However, there are exceptions to the rule: Space Invaders ~ Virtual Collection, Space Squash, Jack Bros, Virtual Bowling[/i]

I am a player, not a collector, and because of that I am not planning to cough up hundreds of dollars for a questionable quality game. Some of those go for hundreds of dollars on Ebay. Not a chance........(:-), despite that I could afford it (its a matter of principle). Space Invaders? Why? It is not even a game which would allow respectable 3d. Space Squash is neat, judging from the emulator. Virtual Bownling sucks (emulator). Since when a needed skill in bownling that a thingy, like a
windshield wiper moves across and you must get it just right to release the ball. That is silly. Why didn't they just make it like so many other bowling games? You set the starting position (left to right), the throwing angle and the throwing strength? You see, that's where the gamedesigning suffers, and in case of the VB, that was a major factor of killing the whole idea.

[i] I love Insmouse No Yakata. I am one of the few, but I love it.[/i]

Seeing in the emulator, you're right, you must be one of the few (:-).
Another game I will buy only, if I can ever get it for under 20 bucks.
You see, it is difficult to like a game, if similar ones exist in far superior form. Heck, just the very first FPS ever, Wolf3d was a superior game in that class (and exists in 3d!!!, although with the old LCD stereoglass technology)

I think that all VB owners should learn about the LCD stereoglass and get one. Some of them are even compatible with the VB emulator (RB)
thus you can play your working, but not owned VB games in 3d.
Unfortunately however, there is no sound. Oh well.....but so many PC games can be played in spectacular 3d.

Gabor
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#8
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/19 15:55

Joined 2006/10/15
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years) App Coder
BTW, any relationship to Syd (:-)?

I am a huge PF fan.

Gabor
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#9
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/19 20:58

Joined 2006/10/10
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years)
Holy crap! I doubted that anyone would guess that. Syd Barrett is an awesome musician. Have you ever heard the Piper At The Gates Of Dawn Album? True Psychadelic masterpiece. Also, my avatar is of a portait of Syd Barrett. And I have my friends at school call me Syd.

Syd Barrett ~ R.I.P.

Anyways, yeah the rare games are way too expensive. I like quite a few from playing them on emulators. Insmouse is good in my opinion, but I can understand why most people don't like it. Virtual Bowling is only good if you like Bowling games. Space Invaders was just great the first time around, and the VB adds a certain oomph to it. Although, I don't actually own it because it costs $200-$300. The disagreement on defeating games does have another side, though. First off, Vertical Force does have a score, so one can walk away with how much they could gather on one play (although the game doesn't save scores). Plus it means that much more to one who can defeat it. Upon defeating the game, one has a powerful of defeating a powerful enemy.

I think some of our differences in opinions can probably be explained in age difference. You seem to be in your 20's or possibly 30's, so you were playing games when the main objective was to get as high as of a score as possible. However, I am 14 and in the 9th grade. My first games were Donkey Kong Country and Super Mario World. As most to all of you know, the primary objectives in these classic SNES games was to beat the game (DKC didn't even have a score counter, if I remember correctly). Sadly, my old SNES bit the dust 3-4 years ago (SNES in the hands of a 4 year old and 2 year old younger brother doesn't last very long) and I had to buy a replacement, which now needs repair because the pin connector has become very loose. Oh well, I've rambled on for way too long now.
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#10
Re: why doesnt nintendo release the prototypes for games that almost were finished
Posted on: 2006/10/21 17:55

Joined 2006/10/15
-1 Posts
Long Time User (13 Years) App Coder
Holy crap! I doubted that anyone would guess that.

C'mmon. You have Syd's picture as your avatar, your name is Barrett, how difficult is that to guess :)?

Have you ever heard the Piper At The Gates Of Dawn Album?

Of course. There is no PF song I haven't heard. And guess what.....I have been two of their live concerts. Not with Syd, but I was at a live concert in 1988 and in 1994. I chose not to participate in the "which Floyd is better" nonsense. I love Syd's music, Roger's and David's as well. They are all great musicians.

First off, Vertical Force does have a score, so one can walk away with how much they could gather on one play

The problem that in Vertical Force, as soon as Game Over, the score vanishes and never comes back. Thus, the only way to know the score, if you peek your score just before you die.

I think some of our differences in opinions can probably be explained in age difference. You seem to be in your 20's or possibly 30's, so you were playing games when the main objective was to get as high as of a score as possible. However, I am 14.....

Hehehe....yeah, I guess our differences in opinions can be explained in age difference. All that 44 years ! Guess what, I am 58 years old. For real.
How come I still love games? I don't know, I just do. Additionally, I am a physician, obstetrician-gynecologist, I do every day what you would like to (sticking my fingers you know where)

My first games were Donkey Kong Country and Super Mario World.

Super Mario World is great. I played that over and over again. I still have it. My original Gameboy broke, but I got a Gameboy Color which is compatible with the early Gameboy games. On Super Mario World I went all the way three times, getting the selection menu (on the real one, not the emulator where you can save the game).

Gabor
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